SPS- 430: The New Content Creation Place with Marco Moutinho from Dibbly

James talks to Marco Moutinho from Dibbly, a content creation platform, which can help you with freelance services. Dibbly also offers an AI tool ‘Kip’ that has some fantastic features to offer the indie author.


  • What is Dibbly?
  • What Dibbly can offer.
  • Security for authors and backup systems
  • AI integration and choices, AI prompts to help with stories, ads, formatting and much more
  • Pricing options
  • Meet Dibbly at the SPS Live show

Resources mentioned in this episode:


PATREON: Self Publishing Formula Show’s Patreon page


Speaker 1 (00:03):
Publishing is changing. No more gatekeepers, no more barriers, no one standing between you and your readers. This is the Self-Publishing Show. There's never been a better time to be a writer.
James Blatch (00:19):
Hello and welcome to the Self-Publishing Show. With me James Blatch is a Friday. If you're listening on release day, we have an interview with a really interesting new company, a startup, a couple years old now, but pivoted recently into sort of a new technology era to help authors. So more on that in a moment, but before we do that, I just wanted to talk about advertising for a little bit because that's kind of our core subject here at Learn Self-Publishing. We've just been working on an update of one of our courses module Facebook ads for authors, and I work with Facebook ads all the time with all the paid ads all the time, not just for me in my books. I have two frames of reference I guess. One is my books that I spend a couple hundred quid a week probably on ads. Let's have a look.
How much have I spent in the last week? 200. Actually nearly 300 pounds in the last seven days, but I only have two and a half books, so it's relatively small fry. I make a profit quite proud of the fact I make a profit on that. Not a huge amount of profit, but it gives me a lot of experience of running ads to a kind of knitty level and eking out profit where we can. My bigger frame of reference of course is Vinci Books where we spend tens of thousands of pounds every month primarily on Facebook, but we are growing our Amazon ad spend as well. And the one thing I wanted to say about it is I think that Facebook ads in particular were expensive and performing more poorly for most of this year until the last eight weeks or so. In the last eight weeks, things have really looked up at our best month ever.
Last year, last year, last month in Vinci, I had a good month with my own books and that has continued so far. So I'm just wondering what that's about. We expect it to get a little easier in the summer and it is obviously expensive in New Autumn, but I would've expected it to have got better in January and February. Traditionally, not big spend month for other companies. Now what do I mean by that? I talk about this quite a lot about whether there's other money in the market and it stands to reason that the way these ad platforms are set up is you end up bidding for a space and if there are 150 people, including some big spenders corporate companies that perhaps are after awareness rather than really metric and measuring their results so they're happy to throw more money at those campaigns, then you're going to be competing against them for the same space and inevitably your cost per advert is going to go up and your cost per click so on or your metrics or you're not going to get served at all.
You got inefficient adverts. And conversely, if they pull money out of the system, their quiet times, which we get between Christmas and New Year's, quite quiet. Middle of summer I find is quite quiet. The beginning of the year, February is normally quite a good month. That didn't happen this year. Then we get to make hay while that sun shines. Now it's been good for the last eight weeks or so. I don't really know why it suddenly changed and why it was difficult. We do know that meta, I'm talking about Facebook ads, but I should really say meta I suppose, had some sort of change to their system, internal change to their system. They haven't confirmed this, but it was widely reported on. There's actually an article floating around on Business Insider that said everything's been ruined for Facebook advertisers. It's so expensive now. Big companies complaining actually about it that adss just weren't as effective anymore.
I suspect. This is to do with the move meta are making towards a sort of AI version of targeting called Advantage Plus where they give you fewer choices and they make the choices for you. I guess this is driven by them thinking they know the customers better, which might be the case and might address an issue that lots of advertisers have, which is they start advertising on Facebook, they don't really get into it, they don't see the results within the first few weeks or months, and so they give up and never come back to the platform. And they might be trying to solve that and say, look, we will serve your ads for you because we know as long as we know roughly what your product is, we will find your customers. And I'm quite keen on that system wide advertising or whatever you want to call it, advantage Plus, I think it is definitely worth using and I definitely do use that, but there's also usually benefit from being able to grind out those targets to find your audience, which we've always done on Facebook and with particular genres using particular interests.
And mine in particular because it's Cold War Jets, I can find people who like Cold War Jets and Kindle for instance. I'm not sure Advantage Plus does that as well as I do it. And the same applies through other genres as well. So I would hope in the long term and if Meta are listening to this, that they always give us those choices under the hood if you like, which is where they are now. Actually when you first go into it, it's why we've redone the Ads for Authors module on Facebook ads in the last few weeks. It's because actually on the face of it, it's changed. The reality is I don't think it's changed a lot underneath because at the moment it just looks like you have Advantage plus everything. Advantage Plus will do the placement. That is where your ads going to appear in the meta ecosystem.
Advantage Plus will do the targeting IE, who it's going to be served at. But actually you can dismiss a lot of these. It's not always obvious how you can dismiss it, but you can find a sort of hidden button just to the right and you can click manual or I'll do this myself. And you can choose all of those things as we used to, which is still something I do most of the time. But I do actually run Advantage Plus here and there as well. Never on placements by the way. I think there are some places, in fact, there are a lot of places in the meta ecosystem that just are not good for books. Books are not high value enough to be placed. And some of the stories, some of the more ephemeral, is that the right word? Fleeting appearances on timelines when people just skip past 'em too quickly.
I don't think they do much good for people who are about to buy a book, but on a Facebook newsfeed or on Instagram. Newsfeeds I think are prime territory and always have been. So I try to narrow my advertising to those. You'll learn about that in the course. If you are in the Ads for Authors programme, you'll get that module very soon. But I'm wondering whether there's some elections about, there's quite a lot of elections about, actually there's uk, we're having a general election in the us there's a general election this year as well, and their campaigning appears to have started. We're having big European elections at the moment, and that might be a reason for bigger companies not to be advertising much at the moment. They might assume there'll be crowded out for attention by political money coming in. I actually thought when they announced the UK election that our prices would go up. I think Facebook is a fertile territory for political advertising, although Facebook does make it more difficult to advertise politically now, but the reality is it seems to have coincided with the cheaper period. So maybe the high profile elections everywhere have driven out some of the big spenders for now. So if you weren't running Facebook ads over the last few weeks, now might be the time to spark up those campaigns again and just have a look at what sort of cost per click you're getting.
Well, not necessarily cost per click of course, what kind of results you're getting, I should say for some bang for your buck. So it is not the golden years or five years ago, but it is certainly better than it was three or four months ago, I would say in Facebook advertising for certain. Okay, so I just wanted to talk about that just for a little bit. I know it's something that we do discuss all the time, so we have a few days left. Let's see when this is going out. This podcast is going to go out, it's the 10th as I'm recording this Monday. It's going to go out on the 14th, which means you have a week left. If you want to come to the Self Publishing Show live in London, I'd love you to be there. Come and say hello and listen to what we're talking about on London South Bank on the 25th and 26th of June.
You can even watch the England game in the evening with us if you are so inclined. Or you can just ignore it, turn you back to the TV and have a beer. Yeah, so we are going to wrap up sales for tickets on the 21st. Gives us seven days or so to sort out six days to sort out everything we need to sort out in terms of seating before the conference starts. So the 21st of June will be the last day you can buy tickets for the Self-Publishing Show Live. And you can do that today. Why wait till the 21st by going to Okay, right. Well, we have an interview. I told you it's a startup, so it's a company you may not have heard of, but they've got a catch your name. You'll probably remember. It's called dly,
On the face of it, they look to be a marketplace for talent in self-publishing, indie publishing. So cover designers and creators. You may have heard of, so I guess a competitor to them, maybe a slightly different slant on things. But they have a very interesting founder who we're going to talk to a man called Marco Moutinho. And Marco is very into new technology. So by the way, if you are anti ai, turn away now because this company is going to be, I think, all in on ai. So they have built some assistance within their platform to help you create and use the latest technology to speed that process up and take away the blank page as they say. It's a little bit complicated to explain. I think it's called Kip, the AI Helper. But this is in addition to it being a marketplace, this tool that you can subscribe to where you can basically write your novel and have some help at all those various stages and pain points that we've had in the past. So a quite exciting prospect for novelists. I'll let Marco explain more and then I'll be back for a quick chat before I say goodbye.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
This is the self publishing show. There's never been a better time to be a writer.
James Blatch (10:30):
Marco Moutinho, welcome to the Self-Publishing Show. Hope I said your surname correctly though, Moutinho. You did.
Marco Moutinho (10:37):
Oh, there you go. Yeah,
James Blatch (10:39):
I'm nice in for a winning start. Okay, well look, Marco, it's great to have you here on the show. You are one of the men behind, one of the guys behind Dly, which I dunno huge amounts about, but I'm really looking forward to learning about it. It sounds like it's going to be something that could benefit the indie ortho community, but why don't you start with a bit about yourself and the company.
Marco Moutinho (11:02):
Awesome. Well thanks James for having me here. So we have a pretty deep history. I'll just start with myself. So my background is in software engineering. I graduated college here back in, so we're from Canada, by the way, close to Toronto, and I graduated back in 2015. And then ever since I've worked on various different projects, worked with various different companies, but ultimately I ended up in the self-publishing space. Now I'm not a writer, I'm not an author, mainly when I started my self-publishing journey, I was more of a marketer and I looked for hot topics that people were interested in reading about and there wasn't a lot of book content around it. And what I did is I would outsource that content to ghost and then I would publish it, market it, and that's how I built a business. This was back in 2017, well, sorry, I started in 2017, by the time I got to 2018, achieved some success and I realised that a lot of companies, a lot of these ghostwriting companies that we used weren't very good.
You kind of just would submit what you wanted them to work on. And then three weeks to a month later, you just get this book and if it wasn't good, it wasn't good and it's too bad, it's on you kind of situation. So I set on a mission to change that and that's when I started the Urban Writers, which still exists today. When I built the company though, I called it dly Inc. And the reason why I called it Dly Inc, or dly I should say, is because I wanted a just one name, didn't really have a meaning to it, and I wanted it to just be very memorable, very creative. And so that's, ask me exactly how I stumbled on that name. It just happened to be that. So the urban writers till this day has been very successful. And now we're rebranding. So we're turning Urban writers, which used to be a ghost ran company, which is now a lot more, it's comparable to Upwork or Freelancer or Fiverr, where you can come in, find content, sorry, specifically for content, come in, find content creators, and they can create content for you, whether it's for editing, writing, cover design, illustrations, narration, translation.
We cover a very wide scope, and it's your freelancers, you work with them. And it's a platform where we host you post your project, et cetera.
And with this business, we used to use Google Docs and Google Docs. We gave the control to Google in terms of controlling the content and having a third party access that content. And because content was such a big core of our service, because that's all we worked on, we decided to build our own tool. And that's where Dili Crate was born. And we started this back in, I think we're in 2024, so September of 2022 recently did a launch. And because of the whole AI movement, we've integrated AI deeply into it. And we have a little pal called Kip, we've named it Kip. And Kip is fully integrated with very cool tools that will help the author journey, help you write, help you brainstorm, get rid of writer's block. It's a very intuitive, easy to use tool all in one place. And yeah, it was interesting how it kind of developed because it was meant just to be as a platform that we use to control the content so that our customers are safe. Our freelancers can only use this in no third party. And then with the release of ai, it just turned into this whole other software that we didn't originally anticipate.
That's just a very high level overview.
James Blatch (15:15):
Yeah, sounds good. So you've got a kind of marketplace, but for content creators and it feels very geared around the indie publishing space. I mean, that's kind of type of people we get on there. And I'm assuming it's going to be a bit like five. You mentioned in that you can see ratings and you can get a judgement of quality or whether it's going to be the right service for you.
Marco Moutinho (15:39):
James Blatch (15:40):
It brings value to it. Otherwise it's always that difficult question is someone's been recommended to you, but are they going to be the right person for you, et cetera. Yeah. Okay. So you've got that.
Marco Moutinho (15:49):
And I do want to mention James, that we do vet every freelancer that comes in. So unlike Fiverr and Upwork, anybody can kind of jump in there and start building a profile. Every single freelancer is vetted on our end.
James Blatch (16:03):
And then you created this effectively, I mean, explain it to me in a bit more detail. Is this something you could write your novel in this writing tool?
Marco Moutinho (16:12):
Absolutely. Yeah. So we built it exactly for that. So the base of it was designed for authors, so you can even fully format it. So we built a very, something similar to Vellum where once your book content is done, you've written all the chapters, you can now go and nicely format it for ebook for paperback, and then get that final draught ready for publication. You can invite collaborators in, they can start editing. We have suggestion mode similar to Google Docs. It's extremely collaborative and we're working on something called Beta Reader View. So you'll be able to share it with your audience in a very specific view where then you can collect, they can leave feedback directly there. You have one place, almost like a survey, but it's all within where you create your content, where you create your book and you're getting this feedback, shareable link view only, and it's all in one place. And you can even have KIPP collect that data for you, analyse it, let you know what people are saying and give you improvement suggestions. So that's something we're working on. Yeah, it's really cool. Okay.
James Blatch (17:28):
Yeah. And all of the things that always strikes me about this is that editors, I mean, it sounds ideal to me that an editor, you could just say, here's the project and invite your collaboration and they can edit it. But a lot of editors are quite fussy about, oh, I need it in word format, double space times new Roman 12 points. Can you also use it like that? You could export it, for instance.
Marco Moutinho (17:50):
Yep. Yes. So we do have, if you don't want to use the formatting tool, you just want to export to Word. Yep. You can just export it to Word, give it to whoever's editing, and then they can go from there.
James Blatch (18:05):
And do you keep your, I mean, obviously you can export your stuff, but I'm assuming it's up in the cloud and backed up and there needs to be a bit of security for the authors around that, that they're not leaving their manuscript open to anybody else.
Marco Moutinho (18:23):
Yeah, so it's completely everything that you put in, there's a login system. We're using industry standard security system to make sure that it's not hackable, it's in the cloud using AWS, big providers. So it's not like something that we've built. So security is very important for us in terms of sharing. You can only share, you have sharing options, and it's only to the email that you send access to, so only that individual can see it. Everything's backed up. So we actually have multiple backup systems so that if something does happen, internet drops, whatever the case may be, we do have backups. And if for whatever reason, because we have a version history where you can go back just in case you lose something, we track everything for you. For whatever reason, something disappears. We have multiple backup systems that we can retrieve from as well as an offline mode. So if you're somewhere internet connection is not great, it's okay, it's going to store directly on your computer, and as soon as you're back online, it's going to sync it with our cloud system. And if anybody else is connected, they're going to get your changes and vice versa. So yeah, we've built it very, very secure, very intuitive, allows you to just work away similar like you would with Google Docs.
James Blatch (19:43):
Yeah. And you've got some AI built in. So Kip, your little, I can see him on the website, the little robot I guess walking across the screen here that Kip. And so in terms of integration with the writing, how does that work and is it something you can choose to opt in with or opt out of?
Marco Moutinho (20:03):
Yeah, so we built in a way to actually disable Kip. So let's say for example, you're working on a project, you have some collaborators and you want nobody using Kip on that project, there is an option to disable Kip. And then all the Kip options that would normally show up are gone. So anybody in there no longer has access to Kip. So we built that in. But in terms of working with Kip, there's various ways. So for example, you can highlight a piece of text and ask Kip to do something on it, change the style, change the point of view, enrich the content, check for grammar mistakes, formatting options. You have a chat version of Kip where you're communicating similar to chat GBT. So you're doing a back and forth, whether it's a brainstorming session, asking Kip to generate an image for you. You can even ask Kip to find a freelancer for you because connected to our database of freelancers.
And then let's say you brainstorm some ideas, you can insert that content right into your editor space with a click of a button, and then you can generate content with, we have a slash kip command, you can generate content right in line. We also have a huge list of prompts that we've personally designed. I think we're getting close to about 70 high quality prompts. And it varies from creating stories, helping you build out your characters to marketing material, keywords, ads, so it's quite wide. And then you can use that in your projects. And then the last thing you can do with KIPP is we've created a whole bunch of different tools, highly specialised tools to do various things. For example, we have an outline generator tool, and you give KIPP a couple of whether it could be vague or very explicit as to how you want the outline to be.
And then KIPP will generate this entire outline for you. And we have it for nonfiction and fiction and we use different strategies. You can upload your entire book and ask Kip to generate a description for you. And again, we'll use a different strategy for fiction and nonfiction. We have a research and research covers. There's three variations for Amazon. So we have category search term analysis, and then we have in-depth book analysis. We have Google and YouTube. And essentially what those do for Amazon, we're looking at, for the most part, the customer reviews. So say you have a competitor and you want to beat the competitor because you want to create a better book and you want to look at what customers are actually asking for, what they like, what they don't like. You can use our in-depth book analysis tool. It's going to scrape 500 reviews from that book, and KIPP is going to analyse it and give you feedback, okay, this is what customers liked about it, this is what customers didn't like about it, this is how your book can stand out based off this information.
And you can even ask KIPP questions during this process if you want to further analyse the data. And similarly with YouTube and Google, we're looking at articles for Google and YouTube are looking at videos. So it lends itself really well. If you're doing some type of research, maybe you're building or you're working on a nonfiction book, and I don't know, cheer yoga is a big trend right now. So let's say you want to get some exercise ideas and you want to use YouTube and Google to see what's popular, you can do that. And then we have summarizer, which can take an entire book, whatever the case may be, you can ask questions about it and it can give you an overview of that content. I think the max that we support is 60,000 word files, and then we have a biographer title generator that's going into Amazon, looking at categories and seeing other titles and giving you ideas for your titles. And the last tool we have is content writer and content writer is right now it supports only nonfiction, but we're building a fiction version and essentially it can help you write the base of your chapter, you put your chapter outline in, and it's meant to compliment our outline generator.
James Blatch (24:26):
Yeah, wow. What engine do you use for this? I'm assuming you haven't built your own ai. Do you plug into chat GBT or Claude or?
Marco Moutinho (24:34):
Yeah, so for most of it we use open ai. So we use GPT-4, GPT-3 0.5, and then we also use other models. We're looking at LAMA three and stable diffusion. We're using it for the image generation. So there's various different models that we use and then we tie it all together to make KIB work really well.
James Blatch (25:00):
Yeah, yeah. Sounds a very modern bang up to date approach to writing. Of course, it's controversial. There'll be some people listening to this saying, well, we're up against people using AI to generate books by the gazillion every week. Our differentiator is that we are humans writing books, but I think that's what this is. It prompts to help you not taking over the writing.
Marco Moutinho (25:25):
Exactly. I think there is, like you said, this whole black and white too, you're all for AI or you completely hate it, and that middle ground is hard. Some people are seeing it, most people aren't. And I think ai, you have to look at it as a tool, just like any other tool in your tool belt that you use for writing, like your word processor, that's just a tool. If you use Grammarly, it's just a tool to help you with editing, but it didn't put editors out of a job. Now AI is extremely powerful, and I do believe that you have to leverage AI right now. It's not going anywhere, it's here. And so take advantage, it's a tool. It's not replacing you. You are the human, you are the expert, you are the creative mind. AI is not creative. AI only knows what it's been told, and it can't really create anything out of thin air. It's always, it has some reference that it used to create that, whether it's a reference you pass in or it's a reference it's been trained on. And so that's how we have to think. It's like I'm the creator, but maybe I'm not typing as much, but I'm still creating, I'm just leveraging this tool to do that portion for me. And I think that's important that people need to realise
James Blatch (26:50):
It. Just have a quick look at the pricing. So there's a pricing option, and I'll let you describe those, but there's also a free but option. Can you talk about the two plans and what people would experience if they just used the free one?
Marco Moutinho (27:05):
Yeah, so the free version essentially would work very similar to Google Docs. You would have a place to store all your projects. You would have write all your books, everything would be free. The only difference between the free version and the paid version is the types of tools you have access to and how many tokens to use. With kipp, you get, so on the free version, for example, you get 20,000 tokens a month, and that will give you maybe let's say 25,000 words that you can generate with Kip, give or take. But one thing to consider is the words that you input into Kip as well. So whatever you ask Kip to do, whatever you prompt is included in that word count. Okay. So that's something you have to be mindful. So the free version, you can pretty much do everything, limited access in terms of how many tokens, and then you don't have access to the pro tools, so you don't have access to the outline generator, the research tool, the summarizer, the content writer.
So that's exclusive to pro. And we just launched a way to buy tokens. So if you don't want to subscribe, but you just want to use KIPP because you're on the free version, let's say you still won't get access to the Pro Tools, but you get access to everything else. You get access to our prompt library, you get access to chat, kipp, you get access to the highlight and the in content writing of kipp. So it's everything. It's just how many tokens you get, very limited. So it's 20,000 versus a million on the base subscription. And then I think the only other difference is with the free version, you can only export to Word, and the Pro version has access to the interior book design feature that we have. And then collaborators, everything else is the same for both Invite any number of collaborators, contributors, et cetera.
James Blatch (29:18):
And the paid version is how much?
Marco Moutinho (29:22):
So the paid version starts at 23 US a month, and that will give you a million tokens, which depending on how you use it, it can be plenty. If you are using our Pro tools, it does a lot of processing work, it does a lot of research for you, requirements gathering. So a lot is happening. It does tend to use more tokens, but if you're just using Chat Kip, highlight Kip, when you highlight text or ask it to generate prompt library, a million tokens will get you very, very far. You're looking at a million words, give or take.
James Blatch (29:58):
Yeah. That's enough for most people. And I noticed there is a yearly option if you want to save a bit of money on that, brings it down to below 20 bucks to do the yearly option.
Marco Moutinho (30:08):
Yes. You get two months free.
James Blatch (30:09):
Do you have to be online to use this and access your manuscript?
Marco Moutinho (30:15):
No, you don't. As long as while you were offline. So for example, if let's say someone shared a manuscript with you, you wouldn't be able to access it unless you're online. But if it's your manuscript and you're offline, yep, you can still access this. You don't need to have an internet connection.
James Blatch (30:37):
Oh, okay. I'm just thinking if you're travelling somewhere and sitting in a passenger seat of a car and sketchy internet, you could still work on your manuscript and it syncs up presumably when it connects. Yes,
Marco Moutinho (30:48):
Exactly. Yeah. So it'll store it locally and then sync up as soon as you have stable internet.
James Blatch (30:54):
Great. Well all sounds really interesting. I think a lot of people will definitely be checking this out. Some people of course will think that Kipper is the devil's work and won't be, but that's a matter of choice. I'm intrigued by it, so I'll certainly be having a look. And it's not just you Marco, is it? You've got a group of you or partnership is it or?
Marco Moutinho (31:15):
Yeah, so I mean we have over 50 employees. Wow. So it's a pretty big team. Yeah. So there's lots of us here. And
James Blatch (31:27):
Do you mind me
Marco Moutinho (31:28):
Asking if you'll see,
James Blatch (31:29):
Marco Moutinho (31:31):
No, no, I was going to say you'll see a handful of them there at the event. Oh
James Blatch (31:34):
Yeah. We'll talk about SPS live in a second, but have you picked up an investment or are you bootstrapping this yourself? This is just a business to business question because I'm nosy, but
Marco Moutinho (31:45):
Yeah, yeah. No, no, it's fine. So right now, pretty much self-funded, so all profits have been reinvested into the company and that's pretty much how we've been operating for the past seven years. We are looking now at funding, but so far we've been very fortunate enough to be able to,
James Blatch (32:06):
Yeah. Great. Yes. And you will be in London next week? Not next week, actually. I'm not sure when this is going out. It might be next week, but it's certainly next month from where we're sitting here now, SPS live on the South Bank and I think it'll be your first time to our conference.
Marco Moutinho (32:25):
Yes. Well, I personally won't be there just because unfortunately it conflicted with some other event that we had. That's just how it ended up. But my team will be there, so we'll have our team there. We'll have a booth and we will be showcasing create.
James Blatch (32:47):
Good. Well look, that's excellent. I think honestly, it's an intriguing product. I didn't know too much about it. I know. I like it. Simplicity. I like that you've explained very clearly what it does and where it fits into authors fits. How's it going? I mean, how's your user base? Is it growing at the rate you want?
Marco Moutinho (33:03):
Yeah, I mean we could always be like, oh yeah, I wish it was growing even faster. Of course that's always easy to argue, but to be fair, it's growing at a good pace. I think we just passed 10,000 users this weekend, so yeah, it's growing really well. Yeah, and we're getting great feedback.
James Blatch (33:28):
Great. Okay, well look, Marco, thank you very much. I'm sorry we're going to miss you in London, but we'll look forward to catching up with your colleagues. And the web address of where to find Dly is simplicity itself. It is, right?
Marco Moutinho (33:43):
Yes. It's going to change, but if you want to look at create, it's
James Blatch (33:50):
Yeah, and you can navigate to create from DI double BLY? Yes. Okay, brilliant. Well, I wish you luck with it. We'll see your colleagues in London and let's stay in touch because I'll be intrigued to see how this goes in the future.
Marco Moutinho (34:06):
Absolutely. Well, thank you James. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
This is the Self-Publishing Show. There's never been a better time to be a writer.
James Blatch (34:13):
There you go. There's Marco Mino from, DIBL Fascinating, interesting. Go and have a look at KIPP and make your new friend there. So I want to say thank you to Marco for coming on to the show. I think if I remember rightly, he's going to be there in London as well, or at least one of his colleagues is going to be. So if you are thinking about coming, you, as I said at the beginning of the show, you have a week left, 21st of June, be last day. You can buy a ticket, the Self-Publishing Show Live. If you go to learn self-publishing dot com slash s SPS live. That's it from me for this week. Thank you very much indeed for listening. I hope you enjoyed your jog on the running machine at the gym, or your dog walk or the washing up or whatever it is you are doing. Do tell me. I always love to hear that. Come and say hello and tell me how you listen to me. That's it. All the remains for me to say is it's a goodbye for me. So goodbye
Speaker 1 (35:09):
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