SPS-179: Driving Non-Fiction Book Sales with Amazon Ads – with Marc Reklau


Non-fiction author Marc Reklau talks to James about how focusing on advertising has grown his book business exponentially.

Show Notes

  • The change in mindset that went along with Marc’s rise in non-fiction income
  • The importance of thinking like a business owner
  • The essential element of taking action
  • Why failure is so important to success
  • The attention to detail that leads to ads success
  • On publishing in other widely-spoken languages

Resources mentioned in this episode:

PATREON: Self Publishing Formula Show’s Patreon page

COURSE: The Ads for Authors course is open for a brief enrollment period. Learn more here.

Transcript of interview with Marc Reklau

Narrator: On this edition of the Self-publishing Show:

Marc Reklau: There are no great revolutionary ideas. This is an exercise. I did it. It worked for me. Now try it and most of it really works.

Narrator: Publishing is changing. No more gatekeepers. No more barriers. No one standing between you and your readers.

Do you want to make a living from your writing? Join indie best seller Mark Dawson and first-time author James Blatch as they shine a light on the secrets of self-publishing success.

This is the Self-publishing Show. There’s never been a better time to be a writer.

James Blatch: Yes, it is the Self-publishing Show with me, James Blatch.

Mark Dawson: And me Mark Dawson.

James Blatch: I always think I sound frivolous at the beginning and you sound serious and weighty.

Mark Dawson: I sound even more serious and weighty given that we’ve just recorded three podcasts and because I fought with my microphone we’ve now got to record them all again.

James Blatch: I used to work in TV. This is what it’s like.

Mark Dawson: I’m glad I work in books.

James Blatch: We should say in full disclosure, we’re batching three episodes together and because our editor Jon’s going away and then we’re going away and then it’s the summer and that sort of thing.

And we’ve just done three and it is quite a big ask. We have to sound fresh and remember lots of things. And then I got a phone call from Mark saying hey guess what. None of the sound works on those three recordings at my end.

But we’re going to be fresh and exciting all over again. Can you remember all those brilliant jokes? We’ll probably never be able to match that.

Mark Dawson: That was hilarious. My goodness, that was so funny. It’s such a shame. They’ll be lost forever.

James Blatch: I’m going to welcome our Patreon supporters. They are this week’s. You get a shout out on the Self-publishing Show if you become a supporter of the Self-publishing Show but more importantly than that, even more importantly than that, is you get access to the SPF university to where we’re standing and recording this at the moment.

Tomorrow night I’m going to be doing a live webinar with Matt Cooper all about read through and calculating how important that is for you. So this sort of thing that you get access to. You get invited to to join us live and ask your questions but you’ll get access to all the recordings as soon as you become a Patreon supporter.

So our new members for this week, and it’s a very warm welcome to Chris McCoombs who comes from California in the United States of America. Jeffrey Mason who is also from California in the USA.

Do you think they know each other, Mark?

Mark Dawson: They do because California is a tiny state. You can get from one end to the other in half an hour.

James Blatch: As long as you’re in Elon Musk’s tunnel. Going to say hello to Stephen Schneider from Ohio in the USA and Sarrah B. who’s distinguishable because she has two R’s in Sarrah.

Mark Dawson: I’m sure she’s distinguishable in many ways the least interesting one being that she’s got two r’s in her name.

James Blatch: Sarrah B. really makes it sound like she might be a member the Spice Girls. Some of them have letters after their names.

Mark Dawson: You just dated yourself.

James Blatch: Hey no no no no. The Spice Girls are touring right now. They’re hip again and everyone’s talking about them. Have you got your tickets?

Mark Dawson: They’re finished now. They’ve had the last gig.

James Blatch: Yeah but they’ll be more.

You’re making a worried face looking down which makes me wonder whether this is recording.

Mark Dawson: No, no it’s fine. It’s just my wife asking me about picking my daughter up today.

James Blatch: We’re going to answer a question that gets asked all the time. As we’re recording this, in fact at the time this goes out, the Self-publishing Formula Ads for Authors course is still open only just.

It’s open for another probably five days at the point this is released on the 21st of June. It’s going to close on Wednesday the following week.

And one of the questions we get asked every time the course is open is does all this work for non-fiction authors?

We always say the same thing, don’t we Mark? What do we say?

Mark Dawson: No. It doesn’t work. It’s a waste of money.

James Blatch: We don’t say that.

Mark Dawson: We say yes, it does work.

And in fact, we can go slightly further sometimes and say that nonfiction authors are often in a better position than fiction because they can offer additional things at the end of their books.

Non-fiction is often about problem-solving or providing something beyond entertainment, which is what I do with my books.

Non-fiction authors can offer consultations or conferences or courses or anything along those lines at all. Speaking gigs, anything like that. So there’s plenty of ways you can get extra value from the sale of a book. But also as Mark has demonstrated and my work has demonstrated it’s also possible to make an immediate profit just on the sales of the books without having to think about what we what marketers would describe as upsells.

You don’t even worry about the upsell, you can just concentrate on selling the book itself.

James Blatch: That’s the really interesting thing about Mark Reklau’s story, and we’ll hear from him in person in a moment, is that this is about making money from selling books. This is not using the book as a lead magnet, which is another sort of technical term which we should all be familiar with by now, which is to attract your readers in and then maybe in non-fiction cases sell them an online course or whatever.

We use that in SPF. Joanna Penn uses that technique and it works very well. She’s a big advocate and will very quickly tell you that non-fiction marketing is easier than fiction marketing in many ways.

Mark makes money from his books and he’s made life changing amounts of money for him which has been brilliant. He has a big smile on his face and is a big fan of yours, Mark, which is great to hear.

So we recorded this interview, if you’re watching on YouTube, on an actual boat in the harbor not far from Barcelona. It was a beautiful day and we had a great time with Mark. And obviously, if you do live on a boat in a really warm beautiful part of the world I will probably get on a plane and come and interview you rather than do it over the line.

Mark Dawson: If you live in Wigan, forget about it.

James Blatch: We can use Zoom for that. I’m sure there are nice parts of Wigan.

Okay. Let’s hear from Mark and the other Mark and I will be back to chat off the back.

I think this is a first for the Self-publishing Show. We have never done a podcast from the top of a boat. I almost said a mf boat, which is a reference to a song but I’m not going to say that. We don’t get the explicit tag that often.

Here we are on a boat outside Barcelona in Spain. It’s absolutely beautiful. I’m with Marc Reklau, originally from Germany but here we are living in Spain.

Marc, you’ve had an amazing success story over the last year or so. We’re going to talk to you about your books and your non-fiction. All the time we get asked by people does what Mark Dawson talks about and all this stuff, does it work for non-fiction and we say yes of course it does.

Look at Joanna Penn. Look at us, we’re non-fiction and here you are a living breathing non-fiction book writer and seller who’s making money.

Marc Reklau: Happier than ever. Yes, it works.

Jams Blatch: Which is great. I want to talk a bit about you, Mark. So first of all, Germany to Spain.

What was your background? What were you doing? What brought you here?

Marc Reklau: I was studying here in Barcelona. I did the last year of my studies and I went to my university and became trouble is in Germany because it was not so great economic times. This was 2003 2002 as I studied here I knew if I come to Barcelona I’m German speaker, English speaker, Spanish speaker, I will get a job in no time and it was exactly like that.

I always wanted to live in Barcelona. I love the city. It’s amazing. I mean look at these beaches.

So I started working here. I did 11 years in a book printer and then I got fired because I was a sales manager for the German market and the German market just dropped. I saw it coming so it wasn’t a big shock.

Then when I was jobless I started looking into self-publishing and writing a book. I have also a coaching training as a life coach so I thought you might not write a book non-fiction. I noticed that in personal development there are many exercises that if you really do them they actually work. But most of the people don’t do them for the reason of not having time. But I had time because I was jobless so I started doing it and I really noticed it worked.

I was doing my book. I put it out and Amazon had quite some success also. But after a while, especially last year, I noticed my sales were dropping a lot and that I was actually losing money every month. So I was thinking well I have to do something and that’s how I found you guys.

James Blatch: So you found the self-publishing community, Mark Dawson in particular and some of the other guys. You started implementing the stuff that we talk about in the forums.

What difference did it make?

Marc Reklau: Exactly. It’s when that organic visibility on Amazon didn’t work anymore because my numbers was showing it then I was. I said What are the best ones doing?

I was looking to Steve Scott who is a non-fiction author but then I found Mark and said OK because what I found out is that really the authors who are successful and the authors who earn some money they have three things in common.

  1. They write a lot of books.
  2. They have a promotion always they have always one or two books an ongoing promotion for 99 cents or free.
  3. And they invest a lot of money in advertising.

And then I found Mark’s and the testimonials they made it from me. I said OK I’m going to give it a shot and then it worked.

James Blatch: And can you give us an idea of what your income level is through your books now?

Marc Reklau: Between four and five thousand dollars a month, which is amazing because before it was a thousand, a thousand five hundred.

Also, I learned a lot about mindset about business because at the end it’s a business, you have to watch it as a business. Now in retrospect, I see I build up my business as a self-published author on BookBub deals because I got three in a row when I started out. That was amazing.

But suddenly I didn’t get them and then what are you doing? And the answer was advertising so I’m not even doing the Facebook ads. I just I’ve been doing Amazon ads and BookBub a little bit and that’s good enough.

James Blatch: Fantastic. Okay. Well, that’s a great introduction to understand how you come to be sitting on the boat outside Barcelona with a smile on your face, which is great. Congratulations Mark.

And it’s funny how many people say to me when we talk to people who’ve made it successful it doesn’t necessarily have to be Mark’s course but they’ve suddenly got it and understand and get into it they say now I understand it’s a business.

I don’t know why authors don’t think it’s a business. But I think maybe that’s because the way the traditional industry treats the writer puts them at arm’s length a lot and traditionally has done in the past. And they don’t get into the nuts and bolts. They deliberately keep away from the nuts and bolts because that’s where the money is.

Whereas in self-publishing, when they understand it’s a business that seems to be when the income starts going up.

I want to talk to you about what you teach then. This is fascinating to me. The self-help. You found yourself in a place where you thought like sometimes I want to do well to improve myself or to open up possibilities.

Who influenced you at that stage and how did you turn that into influencing other people?

Marc Reklau: For me, most of what it was most is that I was I’m reading self-help since I’m 16 but still my life was like this. I ended up in bad relationships, bad jobs. What’s happening?

But then when I looked a little bit deeper it was like OK. Of course, I read self-help and if I’m not doing it I’m not happy or if I’m sad I’m doing it. And then when I’m OK again I stopped doing it so I thought hmm what’s going to happen if I do it. If I keep doing it life will always be like this but it gets a lot more control.

And it’s really when I found that really some exercise like writing down your goals, being grateful. Many successful business people also have this in common too. And the thing was only the doing, so when I write my books really are nothing new in there. There are no great revolutionary ideas or whatever. It’s more or less it’s something it’s like, “Look this is an exercise. I did it. It worked for me. Now try it.” And most of the time it really works.

James Blatch: And what sort of person is buying your books?

Marc Reklau: Usually they’re nearly like me so but it’s probably a person who has read lots of self-help books, personal development, many books but never applied them. And the thing is that if you’re in that you can read many books. But if you don’t apply at least something of what it’s written then it won’t work.

It’s the same with you can buy many courses but if you don’t apply to them sadly nothing will happen.

James Blatch: So the tone of your book is reinforcing to people you’ve got to do this. It’s all about the mental. This reminds me of a guy who we came across who did fitness stuff and I bought one of his books to get fit. He was an F16 fighter pilot, which is the other reason why I bought his book.

His whole thing was about doing it and he almost said it doesn’t matter to an extent what you do, it’s about following through.

That does seem to be a big failing point for lots of people.

Marc Reklau: Exactly. It’s about most people don’t do it and we know that from statistics. I mean like writing down your goals. Maybe that’s 3 or 5 percent of all the people who do it. I can tell you I didn’t do it. Until five years ago when I started doing it everything changed and it’s really that’s why I’m rather not saying you have to do it or something to my rhythm. I’m like try it, really try it.

I was there. I was like the most undisciplined person in the world. I had no goals. I was not a grateful person and all this. But when I started, it really changed everything. And that’s why I’m sitting on a boat smiling today in Barcelona. It wasn’t always like this.

And even then, I think the important thing about happiness and everything is that what I said before, life will always be ups and downs but if you learn a little more about these exercises of personal development you can. It’s not so extreme and you can handle it better. You can learn.

It’s the same with failure forever. I was very afraid of failure and that’s why I never did anything and was completely stuck. When I noticed when I started to fail when I give myself permission to fail and suddenly I know that it doesn’t hurt as much as you think it will. You can always learn something. You can learn.

James Blatch: Failure is a critical part to succeeding.

Marc Reklau: Yes. Absolutely. And then I noticed the more I failed, the better everything got. Even if I had my 10 failures, I had also my two successes and it’s all about that what you said about doing, about trying and giving yourself permission to be human to be imperfect. Nothing is perfect.

Also for authors, it’s very good to learn. How many authors I’m on one draft since a long time and then just never getting right. I had this with my first book. I wanted my first book in 30 days to have 101 chapters to typical 101. But when I was noticing that like I needed for the last seven chapters I needed like three weeks before the book was written like in two and a half there the other chapters were written in two and a half weeks.

I just cut it. I said okay people have ninety chapters. Nobody complained until now.

James Blatch: You perhaps find yourself almost scared of finishing it.

Marc Reklau: Yeah it’s like you have to do a cut because it’s exactly that. If it gets too long you can be scared of finishing it or you can do it. If I put more time, if I put 50 percent more time in it and I only improve it one percent, is it really worth it? Or just how did it go with the 99 percent.

James Blatch: Perfect is the enemy of good which is the expression.

We’ve got a little bit of noise. If you’re watching on the YouTube version you’ll be able to see why. We’ve got an aircraft climbing out of El Prat airport and the wind is interfering with it but it’s so nice. We’re going to stay on this side. We’ve put up with a little bit of wind and noise.

Let me talk to you on a couple of the things I want to cover. One of them is what’s working for you at the moment, whether it’s Facebook, it’s Amazon, BookBub as you say.

What’s driving your income?

Marc Reklau: Amazon ads. I was really lucky and that’s why I always think of you guys with a smile because I started with him Amazon ads in the US and just now in February Amazon Spain brought out the Amazon ads. I’m in a group and I’m going to beta test a group of Amazon Spain. They’re teaching.

I think Mark’s teaching is even a little bit better but it’s OK. So it was also a confirmation. And of course, thanks to everything I learned from you guys in the last half a year I have now two stores and I can nearly double my income.

I was doing BookBub ads, also a shout out to Adam Croft, who really did a great module there because I would not have dared to do it. I did it once and it didn’t work so. But when I saw on the course, the modules I said Okay let’s try it again.

So from last year November until this year February they were also going very well for me, the BookBub ads, but that’s because I had three feature deals on BookBub so I have like a hundred thousand, hundred thirty thousand people whom you already heard of me so I was just running ads to them. A lot, a lot, a lot and it worked very well for three months and then I think they got a little bit tired. So click rates went down the price went up so I said Okay I’m going to pass it now but I’m truly getting back to it in the future.

So really everything I can really say that everything I have today is thanks to you guys. It’s amazing.

James Blatch: That’s very kind of you. You did talk about erecting a statue to us.

Marc Reklau: But when I earn 10000 a month. I don’t know what the price for statues is right now.

James Blatch: I want one of those Stalin-era, Soviet Union ones, where they stand up there 100 feet tall pointing towards Moscow probably. Pointing towards Salisbury.

Marc Reklau: I will ask for some prizes. Let’s see what we can do maybe. If it’s like this it’s also a statue.

James Blatch: That’s very kind of you. We could not be happier for your success and as I say this is the self-publishing show so I can say that other online courses are available but they’re not as good as ours are.

But this is not just about Mark course, but clearly, it’s been a big influence here. I know you wanted to say that. Thank you, Mark. So Amazon ads are working for you.

Do you run a mailing list?

Marc Reklau: Yes.

James Blatch: Are Facebook ads a part of that?

Marc Reklau: No, I’m not doing Facebook ads. I’m afraid naturally of Facebook. I don’t know why. I tried once or twice and I always lost money so I said OK. I’m earning money with the other. It’s OK.

When I did your course I checked my whole system and so I had everything set up I had the email I had already six thousand subscribers. I had my onboarding and everything but I really went through the course and adapted everything. It was like I was refurbishing or redoing it and I think that also helped a lot.

Mark says you can copy it, so I copied his onboarding sequence of course with my text for my people but also seeing as that’s what I said in the beginning to having a reference. You know so it’s like okay.

Mark sends his mail on Day 1 2 5 7. Okay. I’m going to do this too because before I didn’t know is it good, is it bad? But when you see that other people do it it’s like OK. Try it..

So I pimped it up. And also I think it helps and I have now ten thousand subscribers.

James Blatch: I think that’s a really good point because people do contact us occasionally saying I’ve got everything set up, I just need to know how to run one part of ads, can you give me some instruction on AMS ads or whatever. And I often think just because you’ve got a web site and you’ve got a mailchimp account and you send e-mails doesn’t mean you’re doing it as well as it could be done.

That’s that attention to detail from you at that stage of optimizing your platform, getting best practice from other people. I think that’s a really important thing.

Marc Reklau: I will tell them a great trick but I did. Maybe they want to do it too.

I took screenshots. My to do list was screenshots and whenever there was something interesting and there was a lot on the course I took a screenshot.

For example, landing page. I put that them in a file so that when I was working on my landing page I had four or five references to look at it and that’s how I got the work done. Because if when the work was done I erased it. I erased the screenshot.

James Blatch: It’s like the old whiteboard, crossing something off. There’s something psychological about that.

Okay, so you’re publishing your non-fiction books. Now a lot of people in this area, and a bit like us actually at SPF, the books we produce are not the moneymaking aspects of it. For us, it’s online courses and Jo Penn and other people will use books to support their brand and to find people for free will to find them.

But for you books are the driver for your income.

Marc Reklau: Funnily, I don’t know. I tried all the other stuff. But last year when I was really reflecting I said OK where does 80 percent of my income come from? And it was the books.

So I said OK, I will contribute 80 percent of my time on my books and on pimping everything up and doing my marketing and doing my ads.

The funny thing is then everything else comes organically. Because now that I’m selling a lot of books, now come the offers for company training, for doing online courses together with other people. I just signed an audiobook deal, three-book deal with the top audiobook publisher in Spain.

James Blatch: So because you’ve driven your own success suddenly Amazon starts noticing you. I guess the Amazon algorithm started noticing you.

Let’s talk about that a little bit. You started to pick up some extra areas. The audiobooks is an interesting one to me because I know the audio market in the UK and the US, but I’m not so familiar with it in Spain.

Is it something that’s growing?

Marc Reklau: Absolutely. I don’t know the numbers but I know it’s grown enormously in the last two or three years. And the Spanish, they like their audio books, like they’re listening a lot to audio books rather than we do.

I think you have South America has 150 million Spanish speakers. Many times I get emails from them that I bought your audiobook. Many of them don’t buy the book because sometimes it’s not available or whatever or that it costs too much when you have one do I have to paperback for the audiobook. So yeah it’s amazing.

James Blatch: And your books do you do print, as well?</h3<

Marc Reklau: Yeah. With the paperback. I also run my ads to paperback versions. I sell a lot more paperback since I’m running ads to it.

James Blatch: Now I know a lot people who are watching this and they’ll be thinking about the Spanish market, which you’ve just mentioned. Because as you say it’s not just Spain. Spanish is one of the most widely spoken languages. Not quite as widely spoken as Mandarin or English, but not far behind English. In fact, I might even be wrong. There may be more English.

And I noticed in the US now speaking Spanish is very helpful.

So is this an area people like Mark Dawson should be thinking seriously about?

Marc Reklau: Absolutely. And now thanks to the ads I think you can actually earn some money because before it was difficult.

Until December I wouldn’t advise people to go into it because the translation normally costs a lot, a thousand, two thousand euros or more. But now thanks to the ads you can actually drive traffic there.

Amazon ads are not even out now and in Spain, officially. I think it will be another couple of months but once it’s out there what I see is amazing. What I see is I think it’s like the US two years ago or three years ago. Not a lot of competition.

I buy a click for two cents. Which is amazing. So it makes it all. I read Mark’s comment. He’s in Germany now. That motivated me because I am German. I have one book in Germany. I’m translating myself but I said No I won’t spend 40 hours of my life just to have a book that doesn’t sell in Germany.

But now it’s a game changer because once I can go with German Amazon ads I’m sure I can make the books more successful and can also I will translate all my books to German.

So these are the markets I would have in mind: Germany, English speaking market and then Spanish.

James Blatch: It’s just another reminder, isn’t it? That’s when people think oh it’s all a bit saturated today. Just when you think one market might be getting more competitive another one is right at the early stage. But it’s the early adopters.

The early bird catches the worm, as we say in the UK.

Marc Reklau: I’m so happy the first time in Spain I’m with the early adopters because in the U.S. I didn’t believe in Amazon ads. Just since last year. In Spain, I’m actually in there when it starts.

And also this the whole Spanish kindle store is still not comparable to the US. So you don’t sell as many books as in the US but you can be up there and you can keep selling and everything else. There are only three hundred or four hundred thousand maybe, not one million books, but you know it’s not as much as seven million in the US can store.

James Blatch: If Amazon started noticing you because you must be quite …

Marc Reklau: Amazon Spain fantastic. Already three years ago they noticed me. They invited me to do an event. I talked to the Amazon, the head of KDP in Spanish banks too but unfortunately, he’s not there anymore because it was a great guy. He really took care of that.

He even received me in the book fair in Frankfurt. So I’m in touch with him and that’s also one of the advantages. It’s still such a small market they noticed you and this was exactly because they did that also ad for my book in the Madrid subway.

So I asked him I said why me? And he said we noticed. They really look at the books that deliver. And then you got opportunities.

James Blatch: Final area. Talk to you about how you actually write.

Where do you write?

You’re on your boat. Do you write on your boat?

Marc Reklau: I write on my boat. Sometimes I write on the train. I’ve written one and a half books on the train to Barcelona because it’s more I think that changing of the environment because if you’re always in the boat you’ll get like a little bit. It was very good for a long time because it’s inspirational. My productivity skyrocketed here but after a while, the change of environment and then maybe I might even go to cafes or something. But so the top spot is like my boat and the train.

James Blatch: What’s it like living on a boat by the way?

Marc Reklau: It’s beautiful today but it sometimes gets rough so especially like Easter this year was very windy and you are vulnerable. Because when the wind comes with 70 80 90 kilometers or 60 miles, when you’re in the house I never cared. When you’re on your boat you feel more vulnerable.

Also thunderstorms or whatever but sounds exciting. Today it’s really quiet. Usually, it moves a little bit. It’s also great when you take your midday nap; it’s like a cradle.

James Blatch: I’m really being sold on the idea day about midday nap.

Mark, we notice you as well. Thank you. You’re popping up into people’s radar, as they say in business world. And honestly, it’s been a delight to meet you. I couldn’t be happier for your success. We love sharing these stories and it’s inspirational particularly non-fiction.

So the next person e-mails me says does this stuff work for non-fiction, I can say there’s a Mark sitting on a boat with a smile on his face.

Marc Reklau: Take it for me, it’s an honor to be on the podcast. Really amazing trip the last year and the great thing about the course for me is also like I feel in control of them. If I want to double my income, I just have to double my ads, doubled my work on it and this is something that we didn’t have before. So thank you guys.

James Blatch: There you go. There is Mark Reklau, really nice guy showing you that it can be done and he’s in early with Amazon, as you heard him saying in the interview that he took your teaching and implemented it bit by bit which is what I always hear.

I’m almost a third party. I helped put your courses together. I’m almost a bystander when I do these interviews. It’s very often the people who are most successful are the ones who said they implemented it almost verbatim. Then they start obviously adapting it a bit.

But the people who rush and say well I don’t need to do this or that because I think I’ve got that covered I’ll just do this bet. Oh why is it not working. And I’m always thinking well maybe it’s those bits you skipped over at the beginning.

Marc Reklau is somebody who followed the course in the beginning to the end and is very grateful that he did say.

Mark Dawson: Yeah it’s funny, we’ve found that a few times and it’s not because I think my way is the only way but it has worked for me very well and it’s worked for lots and lots of other people. I think of John Logsdon and in particular in the early days he had he tried to do his own thing after taking the course it didn’t work and he went back to implement it as I laid it out and it did work.

We’ve seen that a few times now. And as I say, I don’t consider myself to be the only authority on this but I know the method that we have in the courses has been demonstrated to work time and time again.

So I would say that’s where people should start.

Before we knock off, the course is open for another three or four days when this one goes out. If you’re interested in taking the course you should do so now.

One thing I will also add is that one of the reasons I’m so frazzled at the moment is that I am back in the course creation mode and putting together an advanced Facebook course. And it’s not going to be an hour or two of content. I think it’s going to be more like 10 hours when it’s finished and it will probably be something that we offer separately as it’s kind of a separate course.

But what we will also do is that anyone who has Ads for Authors now or signs up in this sales period, which is as we say, closes on Wednesday, will get that for free. And this will probably be a four or five hundred dollar course so I promise that we will get it for free. I intend to stand by that.

So if you are a student then keep an eye out for an email from us about that and if you’re thinking about should I take it now or should I take it in November when we open again. If you can afford it I would recommend taking it now. You’ll get a little bit more value when this course is added on.

James Blatch: I think it will be a standalone course. It’ll be an ad on for Ads for Authors in the future. But we’ll stand by our word and we’ve made that decision because putting it together it’s going to be a beast. It’s going to be many hours of content. It’s going to take you to the next level.

And we know that we’ve got within our large group of students. There are more and more who are emerging at the top, who are making a lot of money and doing things that they want to or people who are just on that cusp and they’re looking for those edges. They’ve implemented everything you’ve talked about and things change that this will be a super addition I think to the course.

I’m just going to very quickly say that next month, in July, we’re going to be in New York for ThrillerFest so that’s going to be John, me and young Tom. Mark’s going take a break at the same time, somewhere warm and sunny and will hopefully be less frazzled and we’re going to a little get together we would love to buy you a beer.

We are going to have a get-together Wednesday the 10th of July in New York City at a place called Stout NYC. Mark and I watched England go out to the World Cup in another Stout. Another bar further south towards midtown, but this is going to be the one near Grand Central.

I think it’s called Stout NYC but it’s also Stout Grand Central. An Irish pub just around the corner from Grand Central Station, Grand Central Terminal.

We’re going to be there on Wednesday the 10th of July from early probably five or six o’clock. We would love to see you. If you want to come along we’ll buy you a beer and they will have a chance to come and meet John, me and young Tom and that’s even if you’re not going to ThrilerFest. If you got an opportunity to get into the city that evening we would like to see you.

I’ll mention that again next couple of weeks to give it a bit of promo and I’ll put the details into our Facebook group that’s is it. Mark we’ve recorded this particular episode is the third attempt because we had a little failed attempt at the very beginning and I’m quite pleased to see that we’ve got through it.

Mark Dawson: Well, let’s see. We haven’t tested out whether it’s all worked yet. So that is always an adventure.

James Blatch: If it doesn’t work I’m going to send everyone a letter.

Mark Dawson: Yes go back to the old fashioned ways of doing things. Welcome to the Self-publishing Show letter.

James Blatch: We could. Everything comes round again doesn’t it, at some point?

That’s it. So I’m going to say it’s a very hearty goodbye from him.

Mark Dawson: And a very frazzled goodbye from me.

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